Murray Cook: MLB’s Global Groundskeeper

Welcome to Chatter Up presented by Extra Innings Travel. I am your host Shane Barclay and with me today on the podcast I have Murray Cook. Murray Cook is maybe not a name you know, but you have definitely seen his work because Murray is Major League Baseball's field consultant, which means that he is the guy behind all of the beautiful fields that you see around the world and in the United States for MLB's games. And he does so as part of his full-time job, which is he is the president of BrightView Landscape Sports Division. BrightView is the world's biggest commercial landscaper and he heads up this sports part of it which means that he is heavily involved in events such as the FIFA World Cup and NFL football, college football sports all over the world. He does lacrosse even. but really baseball is his bread and butter and baseball is something he has loved his whole life. He grew up playing baseball. He actually played at North Carolina Wesleyan in college. he was a pitcher there and as he gets into in podcast Murray he first started working on a grounds crew when he was 14 years old at his local minor league team and then it's just been a steady trajectory since then. always keeping his hands dirty, always working on the field. But he went from that little minor league job to being the head's groundskeeper for the Montreal Expos and Atlanta Braves spring training complex down in West Palm Beach, Florida. he was instrumental to building the Disney Wild World of Sports Complex in Florida that the Braves transitioned to, oversaw the operations of that. he has worked on a bunch of Olympics including the upcoming LA28 Olympics. but he built fields in Beijing, in Athens, in Sydney. he has done all of MLB's marquee events such as Field of Dreams, games in Mexico, games in Australia, games in London, World Baseball Classic all over the world, the list really goes on. when you see that MLB is going to play a game on a military base in Fort Bragg or if you see MLB is going to play a game at a Motor Speedway in Bristol, that's Murray and his team that is making that magic happen. So, I'm super interested to talk to him, not just about groundskeeping and those projects, but also about his experience in the global game of baseball because he is really at the heart of it. if you build it, they will come. Murray builds it and they come. He is the baseball field magician and I look forward to you hearing from him. Thanks for tuning in. All right, Murray, welcome to Chatter Up. Thank you so much for joining me today. Great, Shane. Good to be with you. All right. Well, I'm always curious how people got their start in baseball. So, before we get into all the fun international stuff, I want to rewind a little bit. I'm curious like your early interest that got you into the line of work you're in, with grounds crew and venue management and whatnot and, and how you actually got that initial start, the foot in the door, as they say, because I know a lot of people their dream job is MLB groundskeepers. So, this is a good question for them to hear. It's well, I kind of started there. I grew up in a small town Salem, Virginia. And they had a ball team at the time. This is back in the mid70s. I was a ball boy, bat boy for the Salem Pirates. It's a class A club for the Pittsburgh Pirates. And the ballpark was literally in my backyard. So, all the kids hung out around the ballpark. And I would I used to shag home run balls and sell them back to the GM for 25 cents a ball. And I got really good at that and they the GM said maybe you should come inside and work and work inside. So I took a little job there summer job inside when I was like 14 whatever 13 14 years old and that's where I started working became the head groundskeeper there in 20 whatever se 1976 I guess it was for the Pirates back when the old Murray Cook and Branch Ricky and crew were with the farm they were with the farm system then for the Pirates. So, it was, that's how it all started. And from there, just, you know, from taking care of the field there, went to school, played a little baseball, still worked on ball fields, and, fast forward to, you know, here I am talking to you on a podcast. A lot in between, but, we'll we'll talk about that in between. We'll definitely talk about it. before we get into yeah that in between I do want to talk a little bit more just about groundskeeping because I am personally interested in it. I do not have a lot of skills in the area but I am fascinated by the trade and I think that some of our listeners who think you know they see the grounds crew u when they're pulling a tarp or you know they know the grass is beautiful. I know there's so much more to that. So, and I will say I think the grounds crew is the unheralded heroes of the game because everyone walks into a ballpark. I know for me personally and for anyone who loves baseball, they see that beautiful green field and the perfect field and that gives you a sense of calm and awe and kind of is one of the defining things of baseball, I think, compared to any other sport. And you guys create that you know, you make that feeling with the physical work that you do. So, first of all, props to you for doing that. But second of all, what is what are the areas of responsibility beyond mowing the grass and chalking the lines? And what is a daily, you know, a day in the life, I guess, of a of a professional baseball grounds crew member? it varies obviously from the level of a league, right? But from a mile guy, college guy, I mean, you're you're you're really taking care of a living, breathing thing, right? So, this thing needs to be talked to and cared for just like your kids. I mean, you're even when you the weekend comes and you want to go home for a little bit and do something at the house, you know, your grass is still growing. You know, you have things to do on that field to keep it going. So, I mean, from a from a daily operation, I mean, it's it's it's it's not a it's it's a lot of work, let's put it that way. I mean, it's the morning start at 6 7 o'clock in the morning to get there early, you know, before so you can get things cleaned up and ready to go for the day. you know, typically it may have a couple of guys to help you out. of course, major league crews have bigger crews. but, you know, any more batting practice these days starts, you know, the coaches start showing up at noon for a game at 7 o'clock and they got early work at one or they have tours and other things going on to ballpark that aren't even part of your responsibility that you have to also work with. and you know and a big quantifier in working on the field and understanding how the grass grows and how the clays work and you it's it's really an art and there's a science behind obviously growing the grass and building fields but you know managing of the infield clays and understanding how they react to weather and moisture and conditions and humidity. It really does you know keep you on your toes and you learn that through a course of just working with all different types of materials and you know had a chance to work with quite a few products around the world and you look at the some of the ballparks today that are out there. you know, they're just beautiful and you know, like you say, the fans come in, they see nine innings. They don't see that the days and weeks and hours and of time, thousands of hours of time that gone into to making it work for that one nine inning game. So, yeah, that gives you a little bit of snapshot. I think it does. I'm curious, are there certain characteristics of people who are drawn to your line of work? you know, people that you interact with on your cruise. like what are the bedrock principles or traits of a of someone who chooses your line of work or the people that you work with on a ground state? Well, first they got to be a be a baseball fan and they like to be able to work outside. You know, I think that's those are those are two big quantifiers for wanting to get into this industry. It's it's a it's interesting to see different folks come up now. I mean, back when I was, you know, in high school and college, there weren't programs you where you could go to college and get a degree in sports field management. And that came about, you know, in the late 80s, early 90s, when they started offering some programs in different universities, Michigan State, Virginia Tech, you know, some of the larger schools that started creating, you know, these programs within their own agronomic programs within their schools. and you know you can go get a degree in golf course management at the time, but you know taking care of a golf course versus a baseball fields it's not even on the same plane. They're both grass, but of course one's all grass and one's, you know, you're you're done in the afternoon. whereas a baseball game you're playing till late at night and dealing with a lot of other issues with the clays and warning tracks and materials. So at you know the evolution of where things have gone from when I started out you know you know back in the 80s 70s and 80s 90s whatever they it's it's it's really gotten extremely better for the groundskeeper with the tools and equipment because things have just kind of evolved for it to be you know easier to take care of fields because they have you know companies that are now making products materials that specific to the sport of baseball and softball. I saw you had an all female grounds crew recently. Can you talk about that, please? Yeah, all female tarp crew. First one. Yeah, that was at the Little League Classic in Williamsport. It was it just it kind of came to be. We weren't really trying to do something. We just we used the baseball team and the girl and the and the athletic director said, "Hey, would you mind us using the girls softball team?" I said, "Sure." you know, we've we've had mixed crews where we've had some girls and some guys. You probably remember in Regensburg, we had a we had a mixed crew there of for the WBC qualifier where we had a mixed crew of girls and guys and it works it worked great. And in fact, in some cases, it works even better because the girls really do a great job of listening and understand when you say something. You know, my wife tells me, you know, stories, you know, how some I'm not a good listener and she's a very good listener. And I'm telling you, it was like it was like we had a major league grounds crew there, a tarp crew within just a couple days of training and they just took off with it and it turned out really well. They had a blast. That's great. One question I have is there who gets to ride the mower? Is there a hierarchy to that? What and what's up with that? whoever can try, you know, straight. you know, that's that helps. yeah, it's it's you know, these mowers are I mean, they're you know, these triplex mowers now they're you know, 70, 80, 90, 100 grand. They're pretty expensive pieces of equipment. So, so and but it's a bit of an art to mowing it. I mean, you know, you different kind of patterns. people could really get into those things. But, you know, we call them mow jockeys because that they're really good at mowing and they get out there and they can stripe up a field and you don't need to use string lines. Some people still use string lines to make sure their patterns are straight, but people have done a lot really like anything else once you got you get really good at it and you just that's our mow guy. So, you know, so you could become a mow guy too, Shane. No, that's like the dream job within the dream job. I think, you know, people want to be the groundskeeper and then they want to ride the mower. yeah, that's true. This will be a little segue. So, I know you've had to work with different materials all over the world and make things work. So, first off, just for to share with like you, you know, you work on, you know, the most, you know, Yankee Stadium, whatever, all the major league fields. What is the optimal like grass, dirt, clay combo? Like material-wise? I think some people don't even realize exactly what goes on the field. And I'm curious, you know, what's optimal? And then is there something really memorable where you've had to come up with a really creative substitute? I'm guessing that would have to be an international spot. Yeah, we've had some we've had some challenges along the way internationally. That's for sure. Now, it's yeah, the new turf grasses are again the just the evolution of where turf grasses were for sports and baseball years ago just continue to get better and better and better. So, you've got bluegrass type turf grasses in the northeast, you've got Bermuda type turf grasses in the south. So, and there's a transition zone where they kind you can kind of do both. And that's that transition zone's gotten bigger and bigger. transition goes kind of goes through the middle of the United States where you could grow either a warm season grass or a cool seasoned grass and I think u you know optimally you know you'd prefer to have an area that just grows one because growing grass in a transition area it's a little tricky because you've got grass that's going dormant then you've got to overseed it then you've got to bring it out early in the spring. So, and you know, as far as the blue grasses and transition zone, they, you know, they get up to, you know, it gets pretty hot, 90s, 100°, they're not big fans of heat. So, you're putting a lot a lot more fungicides to reduce, you know, potential disease issues. So, it's growing grass in the transition zone of the US is challenging. you know your question about you know some of the things we've had to do to make things work. I remember a game we opened up it was in 2007 in Beijing, China. We had just gotten through building the Olympic baseball venues at Wukesong and Major League Baseball. At that time, Paul Archie and crew had won they wanted to play an exhibition game in Beijing. Of course, had to have to be in March. Well, in March, the it was a Bermuda grass field. It was going to have no transition zone, and it was dormant, meaning it was white. So, in order for us to play a game, we had to paint the entire field green multiple times. And people like it came out like, "This looks really good. Nice color." I'm like, "Yeah, it's 100% paint." We painted the whole thing green just so we could host the exhibition game over there with the Dodgers. I think it was Dodgers and the Padres's exhibition game that came over and played there in Beijing back in that in those days. But yeah, that was a that was a challenge. I mean, Jim Small used to be the head guy there with International. He was he has that picture up on his wall. says, "This one did something for me because it showed me really what you guys have to come up with to figure out how to get some of these fields ready." And obviously everything there in Beijing, there's, you know, that's not a baseball country. So, you're teaching people not only just the game itself, but like, you know, what is a batting cage? What is a L-screen? What is, you know, what is a back stop? I mean, you're you're starting from there to help people understand what the game really is. And in some cases, it there wasn't even a word for what that is. So that it was but those are the fun things, the challenges. All right. So, where I know we could go forever on where you've built fields and worked on fields like basically every country where they've ever played baseball, but can you recollect like where have you built fields from scratch like you know like London comes to mind? but in Athens I believe too, but you know where you've like not just overhauled a field but created a field. Can you talk about some of those? Sure. Yeah, there's been a few you know, as far as from the beginning, obviously, like you say, you mentioned London. Of course, I mentioned Beijing as well. Athens was a was a was a total field build for the 2004 Olympics for both baseball and softball fields. They had a training ground near the airport, but it was near the old airport. but it would they didn't have anything of any sort of where they could do a you know a Olympic competition for sure. So being able to build something in Europe at that time and this stadium again became you know we were able to find products and materials locally you know some cases some things we had to bring over from the states and I think that's where you know some of these challenges building some of these fields in other countries we would have to go in and work with work with the with the governments and communities to be able to bring products in. you know, Havana, Cuba, working at the Latino Americano Stadium there in Havana and getting that field up to up to snuff. Again, not a it was existing ballpark. they had baseball, but it just, you know, wasn't going to meet the requirements for us to host an exhibition game or an Olympic game or a WBC, which, you know, obviously that really has really expanded ball field development around the world in countries I've had a chance to work in. I know that I've been part of numerous projects where you've worked on the field and we'll get you know updates leading up to and like how's the field coming along and you'll see a picture and it's like a bunch of tractors and dirt and it's like everyone trusts Murray's going to get it done but you know it's always a little bit nerve-wracking and I'm always it makes you wonder like you ever consider bringing in like a bright view shaman who's like going to like cause grass to grow or make the rain come or make the rain go away? It's like you almost need to harness some supernatural powers to speed up or slow down mother nature sometimes. I think you do. I mean, it was it's an interesting story again in Beijing. We were it was the Olympics opening ceremonies and of course we were preparing for the ballpark for the for the venue for the upcoming competition. But the opening ceremonies, what called the nest was this ma massive coliseum that they had the event and they had it was calling for a thunderstorm and rain and they were able to shoot rockets into the sky outside the city that were had laced with a product that would salt the clouds to make it rain somewhere else before it got to the actual venue and they the meteorologist that was in charge of that program, you know, showed me the screen. We were looking at it and this and sure enough, here comes this big wave of thunderstorms coming down and they just fall apart before they got to the to the Olympic stadium and then they remerged on the other side. They actually controlled the weather. They stopped it from raining at the Olympics. So, you say things like that, it's not crazy. Things do happen in some of these the events that we've been working on over the years. It's you know, just this past year building the one in Bristol at the speedway, right? That's there was nothing there but a big infield of asphalt that we had to build a ballpark in 30 days. Figuring that out. Figuring that out, you know, it's that was the fun part. the phrase if you build it they will come or he will come I guess is that comes to mind because I mean it you've done that you've built it and they came all over. they did. So what is so what is that process like whether it's the Speedway Classic or an old stadium like Rickwood or in Cuba or Sydney like MLB says hey we're going to play in Sydney we're going to play this Bristol classic. we're going to play a qualifier in Germany. What is your process like in order to go from MLB makes that announcement to we see a beautiful professional level baseball field being played on? Great question, Shane. You know, we've we've evolved in our development of these special events. you know, I think probably you Regensburg goes back in 2010, the World Cup that we did there, how to create all the things that go around the field, for the locker rooms and the back of house operations and media and all those other things play into, you know, hosting these events. And then in 2014, we took a stab at playing at the Sydney Cricket Ground. s at in Australia and u we started looking at that like in 2012 how can we do this what can we do it's a it's a big cricket field we don't we can't build anything near the wicket how's it going to fit on the on the field and can we do it in you know 18 days so you know these concepts and ideas start started you know a couple years before and then you know Commissioner Manfred, you know, he rolls in there after Bud Selig leaves there in 2015 and of course he goes to Field of Dreams and sees how wonder if we can do something here in Iowa. So I mean that evolution started. So when you when you when you go to a site and of course we went and looked at the u the Field of Dreams site in Dyersville and we looked at the movie site initially but if you'd ever been there the movie site the field is really small it's only like you know 260 or 270 to the outfield and there's a huge hill and right field and what we have to do to build a ballpark or a venue around that is pretty expansive. So, it just wasn't going to fit. So, we had to move that potential at that location to build a MLB field about 1,000 ft to the west of the movie site. And there again, you're looking at to your point, what are you looking for? Well, we're looking for orientation. is that first thing we want to make sure of is that we want to put the sun, you know, not rising in center field, which I've seen in some ballparks, unfortunately, over the years. or setting in center field. so you know you look for that dynamic of how to lay the field out for the competition but you also want to lay it out to where it tells the story of being able to see you know like for example Field of Dreams you can see the movie site over the right field corner but again the orientation is good. So all these are different ones. I mean London was one playing in Fort Bragg in 2016 building a building a field there on a on an active military base. Very special event. a 12,500 seat stadium at a that we built on top of an abandoned golf course in a in several months. So a lot of planning. Again, a lot happens before that we could even get to that point to actually have those nine innings played on that field, but you know, each one of them are special in their own way and just you know, blessed to be able to be part a lot of them. Is there one that was the hardest or most rewarding because of how hard it was? you know, the London really pushed us. you know, that one was one we looked at and you know, it's an existing, you know, Queen Elizabeth's Olympic Stadium. You know, they've got the West Ham, you know, soccer team plays there. you know, figuring out how to how to build this inside this venue. First and foremost was we needed to make sure the size was going to be ample enough for the field. And because it was a track and field venue, that gives you more width and distance because of the track that circles the circles the field. That one we pushed the limits on a lot of mockups to confirm that we could build on top of things that typically you don't build ballfields on. I mean, we put there's a flooring system total a complete flooring system that went down on over the existing pitch that we had to confirm that would drain properly and we could get water through and all the things that we would need in case there was rain. Of course, it as you know probably it rains quite a bit in London. during the 19 it probably rained we play built that field in 21 days. I think it rained the first 18 days every day. So, It was I would say that was the challenging one because and it was cold. Oh gosh, it was in June it was it was you know 40s and 50s in the morning and 60s in the morning and but we got it done and I had we I'm I'm blessed to have a great crew that's been with me for many years and they've really without those guys at my side I all the stuff that we do just wouldn't wouldn't happen. Yeah, you do have a team of superheroes. These guys are all so talented, such hardworking, and just good people. So, you've assembled a great squad, and they work magic all over the world. Yeah, sure do. all right. So, you just went through touched on a number of these amazing projects you've worked on. I'm curious. I mean, there's no way you could have imagined when you're a 14-year-old, obviously, getting your first job or becoming a groundskeeper of your local minor league team. Like, was there ever a point where you realized like, oh, this could be a springboard to doing something more or bigger? How did that progression happen? Yeah, great question. Again, you're good at this, Chief. you've done this before. No, it you know, you're right. There was there was, you know, when I when I when I moved to Florida, I was I worked to work for the Braves and the Expos in West Palm Beach in the late 80s 88 89. And I just was working in the Eastern League with Charlie Ashbach and the group there on in Harrisburg and taking care of that field and helped him build that one. And they had this the owners of the of the league of the Eastern League teams had this idea to go play in the USSR. And they said, "Yeah, okay. Let's let's we're going to need a groundskeeper, right? We want you to be our groundskeeper. We want you to come with us and figure out how to build all fields in these locations we want to go play." So I said, "Oh, okay." It was of course then it was still USSR. So, so the diamond diplomacy tour is what they called it. Stump Merrell was a manager, Dave Trembley was a manager, different guys, a bunch of people that have come through baseball that Jeff Kellogg was a was a double A groundskeeper then and now he's he went on become a double A umpire. He became a you know major league umpire and just recently retired. But going there and building fields in Kiev in Ukraine one in Ton in Estonia and back to Moscow building these temporary fields on these soccer pitches kind of gave me the edge. I said, you know, this is kind of cool, right? I think that's that's the one that kind of started me thinking about you know at that time you know as I was at spring training and you know and learning more about you know fields and multi multiple operations you know that was the first in West Palm Beach that was the first dual use spring training complex so the Expos and the Braves both shared the main stadium and that was a that became as you know now there's there's numerous of those but that was the first one actually where they truly shared a major league stadium for spring training. How did you play 30 games on a during spring training on the same field? So all those things kind of kept turning and I became a consultant for Major League Baseball in 1991 92 or something and then Jim Small had us go build something there another field there for an exhibition game in London at the at the Oval cricket ground. And of course then we did some other exhibitions in Frankfurt and whatever. So that's that's how it kicked off. When I've worked with you, it's mostly been World Baseball Classic and you seem to be one of the main connectors with the local people and I think that has to do with you're working with the local grounds, you know, whoever they supply you with, like you're working with them day and night. and you definitely make an impression. They love you all over the world. We joke how, you know, you come in, they the art newspaper, people want to interview you and they're taking selfies, but I mean, you really are kind of one of these people who feels the unifying powers of baseball. That's one of the themes of this podcast is like how baseball brings people together. So, can you reflect a little bit on your sense of how you felt around the world or around the US in these different events? like how you baseball has brought people together. it's it's it's it's probably the best part about of the job career I've I've been blessed to have is all the people that I get to work with and meet, you know, learning the different cultures from around the world and around the United States. You know, I think those are baseball brings the game brings people together, but the actual you know, you know, I always say if I was had, you know, somebody gave me a passport, you know, and I and I said to all these places, I would never imagine I'd have been to all the different places that to building these venues and being part of it. But part of that is the desire of working with the local people. And I've always loved education and in teaching and being a part of showing people better ways to care for their fields. And I think that's where we've done a lot of clinics and camps over the years in different countries. And that's the relationship. That's where, you know, when you walk out on the baseball field, the language barrier, it becomes a lot easier to work through because we're all on a baseball field and, you know, in some countries that aren't big baseball towns and or areas, you know, even showing them how to do and manage baseball fields is exciting because they really want to learn. And I think baseball brings people together in that way. And that's that's what's that's what's been special for me. I mean, I look back over the whole thing that I've done, it's it's been able to create those relationships. And still to this day, and folks, you know, like you say, they call I get emails and questions about certain things over the from folks I met, you know, 30, 40, 50 years ago and still asking about, well, what if I did this in the field? What do you think about this? What is, you know, how do you get those lines? That's the that's the number one I still get down. How do you get those striped lines in the outfield? you know, you know, just like your mowing question a while ago. Yeah, it's really proud of the relationships and the people I've had a chance to work with. It seems like you definitely applied the methodology of like teaching someone how to fish versus just, you know, catching the fish for them. Is that accurate? It is. And part of it is respecting, you know, their cultures. huge part of it is respecting the cultures of where you are and knowing what they have and understanding where they are and what they what they've had to work with. I mean, I've, you know, you know, working in Cuba, you know, where they're where they don't have a lot of specialized equipment, you know, you see a guy out there using a machete to, to edge the field with it. And you know, and I and I'm watching him do this and it's just, you know, and watching him, you know, use this machete that he and it and it's it's it's perfect. It's a it's a tool and a person and he's got a string and he's just doing the same thing that we would do in, you know, in the US or countries who have the resources that they would have a mechanical edger to do. So, I sent you a couple pictures there of that of the guy you using the machete edging. And then we brought over a mechanical edger and, to show them how that worked. And they were just in awe, no different than I was in all them, how they did it with a with a machete. So, that's just a respect of how people take care of their own ballparks. and you want to understand that so you know where you can start to from there to get to A to B to C to get it up to a level. Have you ever seen or utilized the method of pouring gasoline on the field and lighting it lighting it on fire to dry it? Have you ever I've always heard about that. I don't know if I've ever Is it actually happened? Yes, it has happened. I have I have experienced that back in the 70s early. worst thing you can do for a field. By the way, I wouldn't advise it because it just it just trashes the clays. But that was back in the day when you know when gas was a nickel for 10 cents or a quarter maybe then it made sense. But yeah they but yeah that was that was something that was pretty common and or getting a helicopter to come out and pver the field to dry it out. You know we've done that before. So, yeah, but the but the gasoline thing, that's, I'm I'm glad I haven't seen that for a long time. Let's just put it that way. Oh. so, all right. I want to, you mentioned the pictures, which we're going to put that picture of from Cuba up during the final production to so people can see what you're talking about. But I wanna I want to talk about a couple of the other pictures which I asked you for some showand tell items. You sent me some really cool photos which again we'll display in the final product here. so can you the couple of them caught my mind. One is a construction site with an excavator and a someone in military fatigues. Where is that one and what's happening there? it's a that was in Athens building the field on at the site was the old airport that was used back in World War II and they were building a new airport north of the city. and what they found when they began removing the old tarmac where they had found unexploded ordnance that had not exploded during the war. So every time we were moving these you know large pieces of concrete and asphalt moving the clay around we had the military was there with their metal detectors checking all the areas to make sure we weren't and I think they found a few they found a few unexploded ordnance in around the baseball field area and the softball field area because it again was it was an old it was the airport they used you know back in back in the 40s during the Wow, that's right. That's that's wild. And then there's the picture of you on the podium triumphantly at the end, I assume, of the or at least the end of your Yeah. Yep. That was a that was one of my favorite events that I was able to be a part of because I was able to bring my family. So, my I my wife and my boys were bat boys for the Olympics. My daughter worked in a press box. So, it was a it was a summer I would spending summer of 2004 in Athens and having the family there with me is rare on some of these events and that one worked out really well. So, that I have that picture on my wall in my office and it's something I really enjoyed. they did too. Now they look back on it and remember it. We've been back to visit since. So, that's pretty cool. that is really special. That other picture I showed you there I think was one of you could see the flags and just beyond it you could see missile launchers on the hill behind the right field wall. You remember this was only three years post 911 and they had established areas of protection for you know during the Olympics you know for security purposes and just had knowing that it was a reminder looking out over the right field wall at these missile launchers that we lived in a different time of a difficult time and just something that you look there's a flags there. You know, you're at Olympics, but you're still, you know, concerned about safety and seeing that was I look at that and remember that have a as a as a memory that, you know, those are troubling times, but you know, everything's the games went off without a hitch and there was no issues. So, it you know Cuba ended up winning the gold medal that year. So, and Australia came in second. Yeah. Yeah, that was wild. Wow. Yeah, those are really cool photos. talking about the Olympics, it reminds me of one more question about so when I was watching ice hockey in these last Olympics, there was a lot of talk about the ice and there's like this one international ice surface guru who they bring in to be the ice expert everywhere. And I imagine like all these different sports have their Murray cooks. Has there ever been have you ever met any of these people or has there ever been a meeting of the minds of the world sports surface gurus? Sure. No, we've we've there's this there's the body called the sports field bench association. It's a national governing body of where all members from all sports, you know, gather each year for a conference and we meet and discuss things and yeah, so we it's so it's football, baseball, soccer, all the different sports, you know, even down to cricket and other sports. so we get to meet some of the guys then. You know, obviously, you guys with the NFL, I deal with Nick Pappas a bit. He's he's in a similar role that I'm in with the NFL. He currently, he's in Australia working on the Melbourne field for the for the Niners game this Friday. of course, we exchange information over the years and because he'll go to places, I'll go to places. He needs to find sod or clays, materials, I need to find some clay and whatever. So we it's the only way to do it because you know you know do talk about the ice guy talk about the I met the guru of motocross who's in charge of building all the motocross for the for the bikes for the BMX bikes which is a which it takes a it's an art in itself of just building these moguls and ramps and certain degrees on these on the hills and certain types of soils for those, you know, it's a great profession. Yeah. Cool. As well. Yeah. I told you I had a show and tell item. It's I normally bring like a memorabilia or some sort of momento. I was trying to think of what relates to you and it's a simple one. It's just a WBC rain jacket, which I love this rain jacket because it's just a simple one and the logo is really subtle on the side. And when I think of you, I think I picture you in a rain jacket. We are meaning our anti-rain dances did not work and you're like just getting like rain is the like for an event like this like rain is the enemy, right? like you just like everyone is just like we plan everything there is and then we just hope it doesn't rain cuz that just throws everything into chaos and that's when you really show your medal because there's a lot of pressure to get these games in wherever you are and I know you put tons of hard work leading into them and then once it once it's time for the lights to turn on and for action to happen. Like there's certain things out of our control, but you always helped get us through it. I know I've had to lean on you. Everyone has to lean on you and we're so grateful for it. And when these jackets come out, that means that Murray's that his job is getting intense. True. It is. I will have the utmost respect for mother nature because she is undefeated. yes. At the end of the day, we can plan, but you can't play in the rain. but we plan every detail out of the materials you need, the crew, the staff, the training, tarp management, all those things. You know, at the end of the day, you're you're working towards all you've got all your all your tools in your toolbox ready to go in case there is a rain. You hope you don't need them, but you have to have them ready. So I think that's you know the raincoat is a is a big one. Yeah. You know and you know some of these countries we go into it's we get a lot of rain and but planning for that you know and building a field to sustain rain getting the right materials in the field to help support better drainage. All that plays into the whole, you know, growth of creating these events in other countries because it's it's an important part obviously especially if you're just going to go over play one game, two games or whatever and then that's it. You don't have a lot of wiggle room there if you got a rain show that's going to come get you in and get you wet. But again, a lot of new tools, a lot of new things out there that are helping groundskeepers today, you know, keep field drier. there are entire systems that go under the field down that actually help pull water off the field when it rains. And even the new clays that are out there now are engineered to where they like water. Like you could you see rain delays this past summer with some of these major league teams. It's just pouring the rain. They're still out there running on the on the infield clay which you think it'd be just slop and mud, but the clay is just is still tight. It's still giving them good footing. it's not turning to a soupy mud because of the way the clays are engineered. So, understanding that and you know, thank goodness there's a lot of scientists out there helping us figure these things out. that's you know, and a good meteorologist, those are always good, too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, may your rain jackets stay in there in your drawer for all upcoming events. well, Murray, thank you so much. This was super enlightening. I'm glad I got to ask you a lot of questions I never was able to ask you before and I think that our those listening will be really interested to learn about this niche of the game that's so essential that people don't know a whole lot about. And I've I've loved being in the line of work I am, which is international baseball travel. I'm I'm grateful for the role you've played, even though it's a little bit behind the scenes in growing the global game and just kind of letting people know it's more than America's pastime and yeah, it's such a cool job and you're the best at it. So, thank you for all your work. Well, thank you for the kind words, Shane, and you always enjoyed working with you on these events, too, that because I know that you're looking out for us in other areas. to ensure that we get the things we need. You know, as a as a competition coordinator, director, manager that you've been in some of these events, you know, it's good to know you've got someone up upstairs there that can that can help you if you need a little more extra time on the field to get it ready. or go talk to the team and say, "Hey, we're not going to hit today because it feels a little too wet." those are those are big parts of what you do what and helps us all at the end of the day make sure the field's good for the game and you know understanding that is important so thank you of course yeah if you say we need to cut BP times I trust you and I will be the deliverer of bad news any day because I know that you have done everything humanly possible to avoid that and yeah we're happy to be on the same team but yeah thank you, Murray. I really appreciate your time and I look forward to seeing you at a ballpark somewhere around the world. Big thanks to Murray Cook for joining us. Murray is one of my favorite people in all of baseball and I think you could see why in that interview. So, next time you are watching a special MLB event, whether that's the Field of Dreams or a game abroad or World Baseball Classic, just keep in mind who it was that went behind making that beautiful field happen. it was probably Murray at the helm, but really as he said, his team and the local teams the groundskeepers like do an amazing job. So, just want to shout out all of them once again. thank you for listening. Please, if you enjoyed what you are listening to, subscribe to our podcast on YouTube, on Spotify and Apple Podcast, and of course, leaving a review is always really helpful. And also, please follow us on social media. We are extrainings travel on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube. And lastly, please check out extrainings.com and subscribe to our newsletters that you can learn more about our international baseball tours. Thank you again and I will see you at the ballpark.